Interview with John Henderson

Conducted by Bill O'Connor at Violet Town on `9/4/09

Bill John what are your memories of playing at Avenel before you went to Collingwood?

John There was no junior football so all we had was school football. Bluey Shelton and myself weren't allowed to play senior

football until we were about 15 or 16. Geoff Baker was coach.

We were backed up by some legends of Avenel like Charlie Beech, Sully Furletti in the centre line, Clyde Vearing, Lindsay Willis was at centre half back, Alan

Willis was at full forward, Viv Frew a 5' 6" full forward. There were the Sidebottom twins, Alan White.

       For a town that size we were a very good team.

Bill Where did you go to school?

      John Avenel State School and then Seymour High School. We played Shepparton, Numurkah and Assumption College. When we played Assumption College we beat

their second side and then they turned up three weeks with their First 18 andbeat us by about 30 goals.

Bill Tell me what it was like playing against Ron Barassi?

John As everyone knows he was fiercely determined. He could do brilliant things. He wasn't a brilliant pack mark but
in a couple of Grand Finals he took marks over the top of packs through sheer determination - seeing the ball, climbing up someone's back and marking head
and shoulders above the rest.

He could run, he was very fit and if I was picking a side back then he would be the first person I would pick.

Bill His skills in all parts of the game must have been right up there-?

John They weren't silky smooth like an Ian Stewart or Billy Goggin, but he was brilliantly strong and determined. He didn't do blind turns, he just went straight through the middle.

Bill Were you and Barassi good on the wrong side of the body?

John I could kick on the left foot but I don't   think I ever saw Barassi kick on the left foot. I cut my leg at High School and had to kick left foot for a year.

Bill What was it like playing against Bluey Shelton?

John   I never played on him. One day we tossed the coin together at Essendon being captains of our respective teams. He was a good tough player who was a great mark with exceptional judgment.

He wasn't real quick but if he got a few giant strides and caught you, let's just say you knew he was there. He would have been a great Collingwood centre half back, the      type of player that Collingwood liked.

He would still play centre half back today, going with his man and running straight. He would have adapted and been just as good today.

Bill Give me your best players of those you played with and against.

John Ian Stewart was brilliant. I played on him several times. He was 5' 10" and could mark a kick in easily. He had very silky skills and used them well. Jack Clarke from Essendon was another who was well balanced and a true artist. Daryl Baldock was another.

      I played an Interstate game with Nichols, Teasdale, Baldock - 18 champions, yet we were beaten by South Australia - a champion team.

Every Club had 5 or 6 players that you would consider to be great players.

Bill How did you come to play for Collingwood and what was it like playing for a league club?

John I had a run at Essendon Thirds and was in the last 40 but they just about knew which 20 they wanted and I could see I was going to struggle.

I was 16, working in Melbourne and Avenel would pick me up to take me home. I had a good year at centre half forward in Avenel seniors and so Collingwood invited me down the following year.

I broke into the side in the centre because Collingwood had a fixed half back line for 10 years - Kingston, Lucas and Tuck.

When Tuck retired in 1960 I went to the half back flank and played my best football there, six good years. I had one average year on a half forward flank because that wasn't my position.

I think today a player like Cloke is wasted at centre half forward, he may well be a world beater at centre half back.

Bill What could you buy with a weeks pay at Collingwood?

John We received 8 pound ($16) a week less 1 pound tax. You could live off it. At that time I was earning 4 pound a week in the bank. It was more than a week's wages. Clearly today's pay has gone through the roof and into the stratosphere.

Bill So you cleared 7 pound a week. What would that have bought?

John I bought a second hand car from my uncle for 800 pounds ($1600). You could live well off your football money.

Bill What do you think of today's AFL?

John Sometimes you turn TV off. They are over coached with too many set plans. I think it is more than a coincidence that the
two sides that played in the Grand Final last year get the ball, run straight and kick it long.

Bill Was it inevitable that the game would go the way that it has?

John No. The worst thing to ever happen was for Hawthorn to win a Premiership by flooding the back line (1970s). They lined up
with 18 players on the backline. As a spectacle it spoils the game. One coach tries to be smarter than the other and tries to win at all costs.

        Wasting time and kicking backwards has taken a lot of entertainment out of the game.

Bill Any other turning points for the worse?

John With the speed of the game I suppose you need three umpires but there is too much stop start of the game and too much varying interpretation of the rules - one day it's in the back, the next day it's holding the ball.

          I would prefer an older style of football that would be far more entertaining for the spectators.

Bill What was Phonse Kyne like as a coach?

John He would pick sides that were well suited to the smaller Victoria Park but not necessarily the MCG. Phonse never had the back up that Norm Smith had. Melbourne was an exceptionally well run professional Club, mainly due to Jim Cardwell who was their secretary.

      There were more people in the professions at Melbourne. Collingwood were more battler types - brewery or City Council workers. Battlers.

Bill     Were the Clubs based more on class divisions back then?

John Collingwood were the working man's club and Melbourne was the club of professions. There was a guy called Ian Graham who was at University. The hierarchy at Collingwood thought he'd be no good. I had some influence in getting Ian to Collingwood.

Bill Who else were the working class clubs?

John Fitzroy, Carlton, Richmond, St Kilda. Geelong was a little more like Melbourne and Carlton had a few more
professional types.

Bill Tell me about Norm Smith

Jihn He was a brilliant coach and a long way in front of us. He picked players for game. He knew the finals were at the MCG, a huge advantage to Melbourne (Bill - sounds fair to me) and picked players accordingly. He knew his opposition and he knew his own players well. And he was a real disciplinarian.

      Victoria Park was smaller ground  that was usually muddy. The players we needed to win games at Victoria Park were physically different to those needed to win at the MCG.

We would finish on top of the ladder and get belted in the 2^nd semi final. And then we would make about six changes to bring speed into the side. And then our side would be unbalanced because we hadn't all played together.

     Melbourne would go into the finals with Dixon and Rowe on forward flank, blokes who could really run and play to position.

Plenty who played under Norm and Len Smith thought that Len had a better football brain but he never had the chance to coach Melbourne.

Bill Did Len Smith deserve a lot more success?

John Definitely. If Len had coached Melbourne he would have coached as many premierships as Norm. As Barassi said you need some luck to be in the right place at the right time.

Bill Barassi says that Len Smith started the handball game..

John Well it really arrived with the 1970 Grand Final and Ron can take the credit for that. Fitzroy used to play that handball style of game, so yes Len was the originator.

Bill Where did you meet your wife, John?

John I met Judy at a Miss Teenage function that she was in (1959) after being thrashed in a final. (Bill - did John get thrashed or did Judy get thrashed??)

Bill Judy, what was it like to be a footballer's wife?

Judy       Well I must say I did enjoy being involved and marrying a Collingwood Footballer. In those days the Club was very socially minded.

                 Every Saturday night we would all get together at the Club or at the Cabaret Dance held upstairs in the old Collingwood Club which was great. 

                They were a close bunch of boys and when one got married we would nearly all end up at each others weddings. We still enjoy catching up with them when we are invited to the President's Dinner once a year at Telstra Dome.

Bill Who hooked who?

   John and Judy There was a mutual attraction.  We just clicked.

Bill   What are you doing now and what is important in life now?

John   Family, grand children. I still work as a GIO Insurance Agent in Wodonga. My wife Judy and I play bowls and enjoy life.

     We have two daughters and a son and almost seven grandchildren.

Bill Was your son a footballer?

John  Gary our son played football only to U/13's as he preferred golf and turned out a very good golf player.

Thank you John Henderson.